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department health services Since we're on a fire department tangent... (1 viewing) (1) Guests
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TOPIC: department health services Since we're on a fire department tangent...
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department health services Since we're on a fire department tangent...
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sugestion. Good, bad, or indifferent. The fire side has spent many decades and some science in what is really a good PR compaign. It doesn't matter if ISO is right it is accecpted and the fire staffing levels and 2 in 2 out rule is pretty much set in stone. If EMS spent the time in scientific research and was able to show how BLS, ALS, and tiered response, response times and all we hold dear to be true and the states and feds mandated an EMS response we would be better believed. Until that it will always be about the money. FD will try to take EMS not because they do it better, but the runs will support their budgets and jobs. Neal Smith
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department health services Since we're on a fire department tangent...
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That is part of my point. EMS has no science to point the way and is therefore able be pushed around by politics and unions and we end up with poor performances. Neal Smith Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
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department health services Since we're on a fire department tangent...
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is therefore able be pushed around by politics and unions and we end up with poor performances. Neal Smith Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® From: David Shrader Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:02:27 -0400 To: <
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Subject: [NEMSMA List Serv] Re: Since we're on a fire department tangent... While your conclusion is certainly true in many places, I routinely (and I think increasingly) run into Fire departments that do not want to take over EMS. Some get pushed into it by labor or politics and some by poorly performing providers. Most that I see, that are not currently in the ambulance portion of the business would just a soon keep it that way. David A. Shrader David A. Shrader, President The Polaris Group EMS & Public Safety Consultants 273 North Dogwood Trail Southern Shores, NC 27949 252-441-8844 Direct Voice 252-441-8856 Fax 252-255-8262 Cell
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www.thepolarisgroup.org On Aug 25, 2009, at 1:55 PM,
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wrote: After reading this for a few days now I think I can make a reasoned sugestion. Good, bad, or indifferent. The fire side has spent many decades and some science in what is really a good PR compaign. It doesn't matter if ISO is right it is accecpted and the fire staffing levels and 2 in 2 out rule is pretty much set in stone. If EMS spent the time in scientific research and was able to show how BLS, ALS, and tiered response, response times and all we hold dear to be true and the states and feds mandated an EMS response we would be better believed. Until that it will always be about the money. FD will try to take EMS not because they do it better, but the runs will support their budgets and jobs. Neal Smith
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
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department health services Since we're on a fire department tangent...
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We have often talked about an ISO rating for EMS but until the medical insurance companies provide some type of monetary incentive to the user it would be a tough sell. ________________________________ From:
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[mailto:
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] On Behalf Of David Shrader Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:33 PM To:
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Subject: [NEMSMA List Serv] Re: Since we're on a fire department tangent... Couldn't agree more. That was part of my earlier points about fire suppression and EMS practices. Suppression standards have developed over a hundred years or so and are tied to economic incentives for communities. Reduce Fire spending enough and the citizens get hit with huge increases in insurance premiums. My own town nearly took precipitous steps last year that would have led to a downgrade from a 5 to a 10 (unrated) rating. The average homeowner who could still get insurance, would have seen an eight fold increase in property insurance premiums and many mortgages (including mine) would have been foreclosed due to lack of ability to insure some properties at any cost. Fortunately, because the standards are clear, we were able to show that spending $500k for a volunteer fire department was much cheaper and less politically risky than having the residents pay $3 Million more for insurance and have 25% or more lose their homes with corresponding losses of property value and therefore tax revenue for the entire Town. BTW, we will undergo a new rating inspection soon and are shooting for rating of 3 to further drop the cost of insurance for commercial property owners. To a politician, EMS systems just cost money and there is no economic offset to provide political cover for spending enough to do it right. Arguments like: how can you put a price on a single life? don't hold up well over time and without some externally set expectations or economic incentives we will always find ourselves on the short end of the stick when the mandated services (Fire, police, courts, etc) get the first bites of the pie. Some communities have taken steps by enacting ordinances and adopting standards _base_d on the meager evidence and consensus standards that we can produce. By doing so, they at least make a public statement of expectations and take away the uncertainty for EMS management in the budgeting process. Its always easier to hit a target (performance) if you can see it. David A. Shrader David A. Shrader, President The Polaris Group EMS & Public Safety Consultants 273 North Dogwood Trail Southern Shores, NC 27949 252-441-8844 Direct Voice 252-441-8856 Fax 252-255-8262 Cell
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www.thepolarisgroup.org <http://www.thepolarisgroup.org On Aug 25, 2009, at 2:06 PM,
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wrote: That is part of my point. EMS has no science to point the way and is therefore able be pushed around by politics and unions and we end up with poor performances. Neal Smith Sent on the Sprint(r) Now Network from my BlackBerry(r) ________________________________ From: David Shrader Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:02:27 -0400 To: <
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
Subject: [NEMSMA List Serv] Re: Since we're on a fire department tangent... While your conclusion is certainly true in many places, I routinely (and I think increasingly) run into Fire departments that do not want to take over EMS. Some get pushed into it by labor or politics and some by poorly performing providers. Most that I see, that are not currently in the ambulance portion of the business would just a soon keep it that way. David A. Shrader David A. Shrader, President The Polaris Group EMS & Public Safety Consultants 273 North Dogwood Trail Southern Shores, NC 27949 252-441-8844 Direct Voice 252-441-8856 Fax 252-255-8262 Cell
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
www.thepolarisgroup.org <http://www.thepolarisgroup.org On Aug 25, 2009, at 1:55 PM,
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
wrote: After reading this for a few days now I think I can make a reasoned sugestion. Good, bad, or indifferent. The fire side has spent many decades and some science in what is really a good PR compaign. It doesn't matter if ISO is right it is accecpted and the fire staffing levels and 2 in 2 out rule is pretty much set in stone. If EMS spent the time in scientific research and was able to show how BLS, ALS, and tiered response, response times and all we hold dear to be true and the states and feds mandated an EMS response we would be better believed. Until that it will always be about the money. FD will try to take EMS not because they do it better, but the runs will support their budgets and jobs. Neal Smith _____________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: Florida has a very broad public records law (F. S. 119). All e-mails to and from County Officials are kept as a public record. Your e-mail communications, including your e-mail address may be disclosed to the public and media at any time. |
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
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department health services Since we're on a fire department tangent...
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medical insurance companies provide some type of monetary incentive to the user it would be a tough sell. From:
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
[mailto:
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
] On Behalf Of David Shrader Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:33 PM To:
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
Subject: [NEMSMA List Serv] Re: Since we're on a fire department tangent... Couldn't agree more. That was part of my earlier points about fire suppression and EMS practices. Suppression standards have developed over a hundred years or so and are tied to economic incentives for communities. Reduce Fire spending enough and the citizens get hit with huge increases in insurance premiums. My own town nearly took precipitous steps last year that would have led to a downgrade from a 5 to a 10 (unrated) rating. The average homeowner who could still get insurance, would have seen an eight fold increase in property insurance premiums and many mortgages (including mine) would have been foreclosed due to lack of ability to insure some properties at any cost. Fortunately, because the standards are clear, we were able to show that spending $500k for a volunteer fire department was much cheaper and less politically risky than having the residents pay $3 Million more for insurance and have 25% or more lose their homes with corresponding losses of property value and therefore tax revenue for the entire Town. BTW, we will undergo a new rating inspection soon and are shooting for rating of 3 to further drop the cost of insurance for commercial property owners. To a politician, EMS systems just cost money and there is no economic offset to provide political cover for spending enough to do it right. Arguments like: how can you put a price on a single life? don't hold up well over time and without some externally set expectations or economic incentives we will always find ourselves on the short end of the stick when the mandated services (Fire, police, courts, etc) get the first bites of the pie. Some communities have taken steps by enacting ordinances and adopting standards _base_d on the meager evidence and consensus standards that we can produce. By doing so, they at least make a public statement of expectations and take away the uncertainty for EMS management in the budgeting process. Its always easier to hit a target (performance) if you can see it. David A. Shrader David A. Shrader, President The Polaris Group EMS & Public Safety Consultants 273 North Dogwood Trail Southern Shores, NC 27949 252-441-8844 Direct Voice 252-441-8856 Fax 252-255-8262 Cell
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
www.thepolarisgroup.org On Aug 25, 2009, at 2:06 PM,
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
wrote: That is part of my point. EMS has no science to point the way and is therefore able be pushed around by politics and unions and we end up with poor performances. Neal Smith Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® From: David Shrader Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:02:27 -0400 To: <
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
Subject: [NEMSMA List Serv] Re: Since we're on a fire department tangent... While your conclusion is certainly true in many places, I routinely (and I think increasingly) run into Fire departments that do not want to take over EMS. Some get pushed into it by labor or politics and some by poorly performing providers. Most that I see, that are not currently in the ambulance portion of the business would just a soon keep it that way. David A. Shrader David A. Shrader, President The Polaris Group EMS & Public Safety Consultants 273 North Dogwood Trail Southern Shores, NC 27949 252-441-8844 Direct Voice 252-441-8856 Fax 252-255-8262 Cell
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
www.thepolarisgroup.org On Aug 25, 2009, at 1:55 PM,
This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
wrote: After reading this for a few days now I think I can make a reasoned sugestion. Good, bad, or indifferent. The fire side has spent many decades and some science in what is really a good PR compaign. It doesn't matter if ISO is right it is accecpted and the fire staffing levels and 2 in 2 out rule is pretty much set in stone. If EMS spent the time in scientific research and was able to show how BLS, ALS, and tiered response, response times and all we hold dear to be true and the states and feds mandated an EMS response we would be better believed. Until that it will always be about the money. FD will try to take EMS not because they do it better, but the runs will support their budgets and jobs. Neal Smith _____________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: Florida has a very broad public records law (F. S. 119). All e-mails to and from County Officials are kept as a public record. Your e-mail communications, including your e-mail address may be disclosed to the public and media at any time.
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
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department health services Since we're on a fire department tangent...
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Unfortunately ever so true. Sudden cardiac death is the friend of the health insurance industry. Unlike property insurers, they don't have to pay to replace. Maybe we'd do better with the life insurance companies. Sent from my BlackBerry - please forgive the brevity and the typos. - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
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