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#4365
Critter (Visitor)
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psychology sample Psychology and measurement  
It does seem odd that many abstract items can be measured with absolute precision, while many _meta_physical items are completely un-measurable. Take for example the circle. There are no true circles in the physical world of atoms and molecules, but in the abstract world of the human imagination there are perfect circles. These circles can be measured exactly in many ways. The area of a given circle is (pi*R^2). The same is true for squares. The same is true for all of calculus, and all of mathematics for that matter. The whole thing is one gigantic abstraction, and the measurements are exact, the measurements are precise, frequently with a margin for error of +/- zero, the results are provable, verifiable, and reproducible. Bear in mind, that all of mathematics is an abstraction, purely abstract, an _object_ of man's imagination. So why then is it so difficult to measure the _meta_physical ? Why is it that no-one can measure the intensity of an emotion, or the beauty of a flower ? Could it be, because psychology is pure quackery ? Can we measure the intensity of love ? The amplitude of a fear ? The duration of a hateful thought ? Graph the onset of disgust ? Someone help me out here !!
 
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Pavel Brown (Visitor)
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It does seem odd that many abstract items can be measured with absolute precision, while many _meta_physical items are completely un-measurable. Take for example the circle. There are no true circles in the physical world of atoms and molecules, but in the abstract world of the human imagination there are perfect circles. These circles can be measured exactly in many ways. The area of a given circle is (pi*R^2). The same is true for squares. The same is true for all of calculus, and all of mathematics for that matter. The whole thing is one gigantic abstraction, and the measurements are exact, the measurements are precise, frequently with a margin for error of +/- zero, the results are provable, verifiable, and reproducible. Bear in mind, that all of mathematics is an abstraction, purely abstract, an _object_ of man's imagination. So why then is it so difficult to measure the _meta_physical ? Why is it that no-one can measure the intensity of an emotion, or the beauty of a flower ? Could it be, because psychology is pure quackery ? Can we measure the intensity of love ? The amplitude of a fear ? The duration of a hateful thought ? Graph the onset of disgust ? Someone help me out here !! Behavioral, and a good deal of medical, science, is not _base_d upon scientific measurement. They are not exact sciences by any stretch of the imagination.   Can you quantifiably express your love of God Critter? Is Christianity therefore quackery?   P.
 
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#4367
Critter (Visitor)
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Could it be, because psychology is pure quackery ? Can we measure the intensity of love ? The amplitude of a fear ? The duration of a hateful thought ? Graph the onset of disgust ? Someone help me out here !! Behavioral, and a good deal of medical, science, is not _base_d upon scientific measurement. They are not exact sciences by any stretch of the imagination. Can you quantifiably express your love of God Critter? Is Christianity therefore quackery? Christianity is not science, unless you are a scientologist I suppose - but I do not believe in that. I do not claim that God's existence is provable, I only claim that he exists. I also acknowledge that he may not exist. Further, I believe that he may exist and not exist simultaneously. I will not try to explain this to you, but these are beliefs - and not something which I profess to be science. You seem to not believe in God at all. I dont know why you should believe that he does not exist, when you seem ready to accept the existence of other non-provable items. You have still not answered the question, however. Can we measure the intensity of love ? The amplitude of a fear ? The duration of a hateful thought ? Graph the onset of disgust ? I know of nothing in medicine which is not _base_d on measurement. The entire human genome is being mapped. Physiology is understood so well that physicians frequently do not need measurement, but they use it anyway for reasons of liability. Even in cases where an illness is absolutely indicated, they might still order lab tests to confirm for liability reasons. In other cases, lab work and other forms of measurement are bypassed fro reasons of practicality. In psychology, proof is bypassed not because of practicality, but because fo impossibility.     I have heard the word chemical imbalance thrown around like a beanbag at a hackeysack convention, but, curiously, we are never privy to the details of the testing which proves the existence of such an imbalance. How, exactly, using chemical testing equipment, does one demonstrate the existence of a chemical imbalance ? Do you use a GC ? HPLC ? NMR ? Where do you take the sample from when you conduct the chemical tests to determine the chemical imbalance ? Do you take the sample from the cranium ? The medula ? Cerebrum ? Cerebellum ?     Or, is the chemical imbalance just a convenient rock to hide behind ? - another pathetic attempt to cloak yourselves in the robes of real science ?     I need an answer to this question immediately or point me to where  I can find it !
 
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#4368
Brian Worthey (Visitor)
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the chemical imbalance ? Do you take the sample from the cranium ? The medula ? Cerebrum ? Cerebellum ?     Or, is the chemical imbalance just a convenient rock to hide behind ? - another pathetic attempt to cloak yourselves in the robes of real science ?     I need an answer to this question immediately or point me to where  I can find it ! I agree that I wonder where this whole discussion of a chemical imbalance comes from and how do we know this.  I've heard it explained that practitioners, whomever this might have actually been, know or have learned that certain behaviors are exhibited due to diffierentchemical imbalances. If you read the criteria for diagnoses in the DSM, the criteria is behavioral.  But my question has been how do we know this.  I can agree with the premise that these chemical imbalances can cause certain behavioral manifestations, but how didi someone determine that this was so and how long ago was it done, and when did these tests stop being done and it simply said you have a chemical imbalance?  Was it the use of medication that determined this?  I understand all of this may be a bit jumbled (i'm doing too many things at once right now), but I hope I did make some sense. B-Worthey
 
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Critter (Visitor)
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this?  I understand all of this may be a bit jumbled (i'm doing too many things at once right now), but I hope I did make some sense. B-Worthey I can make it all perfectly clear in a one word sentence. FRAUD.
 
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Brian Worthey (Visitor)
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I can make it all perfectly clear in a one word sentence. FRAUD. Of course this leads to my next question........what then causes these previous mentioned behavioral manifestations?  What are medications treating/doing if there isn't a chemical imbalance? I realize that this isn't answering your other question either about measuring the intensity of love, fear, etc., but its still an interesting topic though.  As far as that goes, my first impression is that you can't measure these things you mentioned because each would be unique to the individual, but could you still measure it in the individual then?  i'm still thinking on that one! B-Worthey
 
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